Thursday, November 02, 2006

Save Our Homes Killing New Home Buyers

Front page article in the Tampa Tribune. I know I've been preaching to the choir about how the "Save Our Homes" tax system is royally screwing the real estate here - it's nice to see that the msm is finally catching a hint.

"Recent buyers in Florida’s housing market are learning hard lessons, come tax time.

The year after a home qualifies for a homestead exemption, it is shielded from the double- or triple-digit assessment hikes that have been the norm in the sellers’ market of the past few years. That shield comes courtesy of a Save Our Homes cap that limits such increases to a maximum 3 percent a year.

But before that kicks in, the reassessments that take place when property is sold can yield astounding changes in taxable value.

For Jamie Tingen, the surprise came with this year’s tax bill. A Florida resident for a half-century, she traded up from a two-bedroom to a three-bedroom townhouse on the same street.

Her tax bill more than tripled."


People are absolutely clueless about this. They see what the current owner has been paying for taxes, and the realtors (being the soul-less wonders that they are) make no attempt to inform the buyer that, the following year after the purchase, their home will be re-assessed at CURRENT market value, which can often mean a several-thousand dollar increase per year. For current homeowners who want to move up, it'll bite you good.

"Just last year, Tingen, as a longtime owner of a homesteaded property, was on the enviable side of the street of Florida’s property tax system. Her smaller townhouse, which she bought in 1980, had an assessed value last year of $45,305 – held down for the past decade by the Save Our Homes cap.

Its market value was far more. She sold it for $137,000. The tax bill for the new owners leaped to $2,200 from the $500 Tingen paid last year.

She says such disparities are unfair: “Everybody seems to be in the same boat, and nobody seems to be doing anything about it.” "

People from out of state are being stunned by their predicament.

"Aldegonda Caris and her husband, Glenn Smith, moved from Long Island, N.Y., to Tampa last year after Smith accepted a job as an assistant professor at USF’s College of Education. They heard the cost of living in Florida was lower. Then they bought a house.

“We have a smaller house and pay more taxes,” said Caris, who said their property taxes on a larger home in New York stayed at about $5,500 a year. “The taxes increased gradually, while in Florida, every time the house is sold, it goes up significantly.”

Between last year and this year, the tax bill on their Tampa Palms home nearly doubled to $6,300.

Caris was shocked to see neighbors in a similar home pay $2,500.

“We get the same benefits. Why would we need to pay so much more?” Caris said. “I don’t see what the goal for Florida is. Why do they give a higher burden to newcomers? Maybe they want to chase them away. I definitely think they should do something about it.”

Welcome to the "Greed State", Mr. Caris. Believe me, I care about the issue, but the vast majority of people in this state do not. Another recent immigrant, John Sarver, has the same tale.

"The civilian strategic planner at U.S. Central Command moved to Brandon late last year from Colorado Springs. That recent arrival earned him the not-so-enviable position on the block as the man with the highest property tax bill.

He’ll pay almost $9,000 this year in property taxes. That’s more than he paid for both property taxes and state income taxes in Colorado. Most of his neighbors pay a third or half of that, even though their homes are about the same size as his – or larger.

“I look across the street,” said Sarver, who bought his home for $475,000 at the height of the market late last year. “I know my neighbors have enjoyed all this equity they’ve gained from ’03 to ’05, but I feel like I subsidize their property.”

Let's face it - Pandora's box has been opened, and nobody can close it. People who've lived here for 3 or more years are paying next to nothing, and every new homebuyer since then is subsidizing their lifestyle. Because of this, outside investors won't invest and persons considering a move here won't. I've said it before, and I'll keep saying it until everyone understands:

If you buy now in Florida, you'll pay more in taxes than the majority of wealthier homeowners in this state. And until they move or die, you always will.

Do you think this will help or hinder the real estate values? Ken Wilkinson must be very proud of himself.

99 comments:

June said...

If they move or die, why would you pay less?

sandi said...

Good one, june!

I think he means that, once they move, they'll start paying taxes on what their new house is actually worth (not the killer discount they're getting now). As far as death - well, I get his point on that too.

Anonymous said...

He who dies with the most debt wins!

With that in mind, me thinks all the recent FB's in fla are competing in a battle-royale for that title.

hee-hee...

Crazy G said...

True story!!!

So, I was outside washing the car and a little old lady drove by very slowly, looking at all the For Sale signs out on the lawns here in our subdivision...
Being friendly, I waved to her, as she passed, bye....she went down to the end of the street, turned around, and came back bye again..this time she stopped, and asked me about all the townhouses for sale, and she was thinking of buying one, cuz she wanted to downsize from her 6000 sq ft house cuz her husband had pasted away, and she didn't need a house that big....
I explained to her that they were 'nice' houses, but that the taxes on a $300k town house would cost her, $7500/yr, + HOA....

Her eyes got kinda big...then she said she had been in that big house for 19 years, and only paid $1200 yr. taxes...

The conversation ended shortly after that, and she drove off, and said she'd really have to think about it...

I know the area, in which she lives...and I'd say most homes in there, are selling for $750,000+
[if any EVER get sold]....

Anonymous said...

really, florida people shouldnt complain. maybe if homeowners paid for taxes based on value of the home annually, they wouldnt say "my home is worth 400,000" they would say "my home is only worth 250,000" if you want live like a king, you need to pay like a king. get rid of the save our homes tax break and watch house values fall like a rock.

Crazy G said...

YOUR ALL MISSING THE POINT, HERE!!!

SOH, is actually doing EXACTLY what it was designed to do...

Taxes had been going up "BECAUSE" of developemnt of new homes, and the current home owners wanted to cap them....SSOOO, they passd a constitutional ammendment....

MAKE THE NEWBIES PAY!!!!!

>>>>WELL!!! """"YOUR PAYING"""

And that little old widow is stuck in her house paying 1/10 of what a newbie would pay!!!!

[[[[[[[THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THE SYSTEM WAS DESIGNED TO DO]]]]]]]

The ole' saying;

>>>>I wasn't born here, but I got here as soon as I could<<<

""""WELL....Your to late"""

Crazy G said...

This story takes you back maybe nearly 20 years ago....
The rally point around the SOH ammendment, was a couple in W. Palm, who purchased a little, and I mean little house along the inter-coastal.... back in the 60's...
They paid like $8000 for the property back then, and they were retired....and liked their little place in the sun, to live out their life.....
Well, the development around them was significant, and low and behold, by the late '80's they found that their property taxes were $8000.....
>>>HOW COULD THIS ""BE""?????<<<<

[[[[THEY WOULD HAVE TO SELL THEIR PROPERTY, THEIR DREAM HOME...JUST TO PAY THE TAXES ON IT]]]]]

WELL!! The war chant went out, and Save Our Homes came into existence....and little old widows can live out their lives in piece, without the tax collector banging on the door.....

|||| AMEN |||||

People really do have short memories!!!!

Crazy G said...

Florida home-owners are looking for love in all the wrong places!!!

The tax collector LOVES to take your money, and does so with a smile on their face....

The insurance company, they don't love your money, or even love you with a 30, 50, 100% increase.....
SSOOO!!! Allstate just declared, they are dropping 120,000 more policy holders....some 240,000 in all....

And you people are 'bitch'n' about your taxes, when you can't even buy homeowners insurance at any price that's reasonable....PERIOD!!!

LOVE TRULY IS BLIND!!!!

For people that love Florida!!!!

super supper said...

SOH is the beauracratic equivalent of a monkey f-ing a football.

That was a good one about the old lady, G. I hope she wises up and keeps the old place.

And to the anon post right after - you make a good point, because the article unfortunately talks mostly about people moving into giant houses. In reality, it's regular 3 bedroom houses that are getting raped by the SOH law, too. In my neighborhood, a recently purchased 3/2/2 starter home pays nearly $6K in taxes, while everyone else on the street pays just over $2K. That's over $300/month for the EXACT same government services on a 10 year old house on a 10 year old street with a 25 year old school. I love SOH - let the suckers pay!

Anonymous said...

from http://njrereport.com

NAR Campaign Negates Bubble Hype, Encourages Buyers And Sellers
by Blanche Evans

If you don’t know who Blanche is, you should spend some time reading her stories. I am about ready to take the crown from Leslie Appleton-Young and proclaim Blanche Evans the new Bubble Queen.

“If you don’t tell your story, someone else will,” Joe Williams, co-founder of Keller Williams said recently about the media’s disinclination to quote real estate brokers as sources for the myriad stories written recently about the so-called housing bubble.

Instead they turn to anyone but people who buy and sell homes for a living — stock analysts, economists, media pundits, authors, and so on. The effect on buyers has been paralyzing. Many brokers say buyers are concerned with more than rising home prices and interest rates — they’re scared of being the next greater fool.

Right on Blanche! Forget about those PhD economists and writers. What do they know about real estate anyway? Those dopes spent years tucked away in ivy league schools, learning about the intricacies of economic theory, for what? Didn’t they realize they could learn all they needed to know from a 75-hour licensure course and a Carlton Sheets book?

Or maybe, just maybe Blanche, they realize that people who sell homes are biased. If homes don’t sell, real estate agents don’t have food on their tables. How can you ask someone who has such a vested interest in real estate? Do you really think you’ll receive an unbiased answer?

With enormously improved conditions — interest rates comparable to 40-year-lows and rising inventories that provide greater selection, pending sales are already beginning to rise. Even the former Federal Reserve chairman, Alan Greenspan said he thought the “worst of this may well be over.” This could cause many buyers to miss a golden opportunity — home prices and sales expected to rise again in the spring.

Way to spin Blanche, you go girl! And throwing Greenspan in there for credibility, absolute genious. I also like the play on urgency as well. That worked so well for you guys over the past few years, didn’t it. You’ll miss the boat, you’ll be priced out. You’ll never afford if you don’t buy now. If you don’t make an offer today someone else will! Don’t you understand? You are going to miss a golden opportunity.

Now the NAR is doing something about the negative hype — running full-page newspaper advertisements in six of the nation’s leading newspapers beginning yesterday. The ads are designed to urge home buyers who have been waiting to buy the home of their dreams to act now before the market changes. Not coincidentally, the newspapers chosen — Wall Street Journal, USA Today, New York Times, Washington Post, Los Angeles Times and Chicago Tribune, are among those most guilty of hyping the housing bubble to the point of scaring buyers to death.

So what you are basically saying Blanche, is that scaring buyers away from buying is bad, but the NAR trying to scare buyers into buying with their mass propoganda is good? Of course it is, because it suits your agenda.

NAR’s first-ever newspaper blitz features the headline, “It’s a great time to buy or sell a home.” The advertisement points out that interest rates have fallen seven months in a row and are near 40 year lows, inventories of existing homes are higher than they have been in decades and prices have stabilized. But the perfect conditions for buyers are likely to change as sales pick up, prices gain traction and conditions improve for sellers next year.

Of course it’s a great time to buy or sell a home, it’s always a great time for a commission. Oops! I meant to buy or sell a home. When has the NAR or the Real Estate industry ever said it was a bad time to buy or sell? Never, and they never will. Sales are down thus commissions are down. The increased pool of agents only serves to further dilute the commission pool. I see the NAR has also mastered the ability to create a sense of urgency among buyers.

“The market is much better than you might hear or read,” says Tom Stevens, NAR’s president. “Consumers should take advantage of this perfect alignment of low rates and extraordinary inventory before market conditions change,”

Tom, turn that chart over, you are looking at it upside down. But I’ll agree with you on that last point, we’re in for one heck of a change.

And people say I have an agenda?

Thought u may have a laugh....

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAA

Bob

zippo said...

Bob,
That was freakin' awesome - Blanche is a real "piece of work" (or piece of something else, if you ask a lot of people).

Jerry ran an article here (last month, I think) about an interview with that pathological liar. He came up with the same conclusion. She must be sitting on a lot of upside down investments to be able to blantantly say the EXACT wrong thing over and over and over.

Anonymous said...

If the orginal Homestead exemption was indexed for inflation these new buyers (including first time buyers) would not be paying so much in taxes. The homstead expemption would be a minimum of 55k and if you used real inflation the exemption could be close 100k. This would spread the greater taxes to the higher value houses. Of course the Counties would collect much less taxes unless they really increased the millage rate.

slow and low said...

I like your point. Raising the floor is a good idea - just got to be careful that not too many houses get to go tax-free.

I think the point of the SOH was to keep regular people from losing their homes due to skyrocketing values. NOT to keep millionaires (like Rush Limbaugh, Malcolm Glazer, Greg Norman, et all...) from paying their fair share. What they should do is create a ceiling (indexed for inflation every year) that allows no exemption above that level. Say, half a million dollars. Anyone who spends that kind of money doesn't need a tax break.

wacahootaman said...

When the 25K homestead exemption was granted in 1981 it exempted at least 50 percent of the taxable value of the median value home from property taxes. The homestead exemption should be changed today to exempt 50 per cent of the median valued home in every county. The SOH double standard should be ended.

That way all homesteads would have the same rate. And most of the SOH people would not be paying any more than they were before. That would be fair to the homeowners and the counties would have to adjust to these lower taxes.

sandi said...

If they actually came up with a solution, would they have to amend the consitution? I seem to recall that SOH is now a part of the constitution.

If this is the case, don't expect any relief for years.

lizziebeth said...

This is just fallout from the absurd run up in house prices! I have to say my personal take on it is that these people were stupid enough to pay the over inflated prices on these homes, they should have to pay the overinflated taxes! The SOH wasn't a huge issue before the run up in prices. Houses took decades to double in value! Not only do you have people living on the same street paying triple taxes for the same exact house, they paid triple what the same house cost. I'm not a huge fan of SOH, it's just people who bought a home in 2000 shouldn't have to pay higher taxes because a bunch of idiot investors, realtors and builders ran up the prices of homes. Had people done their homework they would have known what the taxes would be! That's why I rent, I refuse to pay double for a shoddily built house than my neighbors as well as double the taxes! Any home buyer can go to the county tax appraisers website and see what the owner paid for the house. If you bought a house for $500k that was purchased in 2002 for $200k, surely you know your taxes will be double what the current taxes are. I agree the SOH should be abolished as it's unfair, but I have little sympathy for the sheeple that bought at the height of the bubble!

Anonymous said...

Well put Lizzie. I am a native Floridian and I have no sympathy for the idiots that purchased properties at double the amount that I paid in 2000 to build. For me, a husband and father of four, I applaud SOH b/c I know what to expect year in and year out for my property taxes. Besides, if things get as bad as I suspect, this will be a non-issue as prices will drop dramatically and therefore taxes will also get back in line. Prime example is a neighbor that put his house on the market in Jan 06 for 589k; now at 469k and nobody even looking at it. He built in 2001 and, in my opinion, is worth about 350k.

xSparta said...

Homeowners that complain about the SOH taxes, don't seem to complain when they sell and walk away with a few hundred K in profits.

xSparta said...

Now the NAR is doing something about the negative hype — running full-page newspaper advertisements in six of the nation’s leading newspapers beginning yesterday. The ads are designed to urge home buyers who have been waiting to buy the home of their dreams to act now before the market changes. Not coincidentally, the newspapers chosen — Wall Street Journal, USA Today, New York Times, Washington Post, Los Angeles Times and Chicago Tribune, are among those most guilty of hyping the housing bubble to the point of scaring buyers to death.


Where does the NAR get off giving investment advice. They should be fined for this type of advice!!

Crazy G said...

THIS ONE TAKES THE CAKE!!!

THIS ONE TAKES THE CAKE!!

THIS ONE TAKES THE CAKE!!! OF ""ALL"" THE REALTOR BLOGS I'VE EVER HEARD OR READ....

So, this guy by the name of Jason Ingle, of the, http://www.ashevillehomebuyer.blogspot.com , said in a recent posting.

|||| ""As an Exclusive Buyer Agency we study closely the changing market and quite frankly would welcome a more buyer friendly market. I believe that the large areas of the nation where the market is "tanking" are actually going to provide opportunities for people who have been on the sidelines to get into the game. That's a good thing"" |||||

Wait a minute; aren't these the people, who he just sold homes to, that their properties are 'tanking'..."all" the properties sold in the last 1 1/2 yrs, are NOW under water ["that's a good thing"], and NOW he wants people to buy MORE....

Anonymous said...

"inventories of existing homes are higher than they have been in decades and prices have stabilized."

What a remarkably dumb statement. Inventories are at record highs (and climbing, BTW, and new home inventories are at record highs as well) and housing prices have stabilized.

That level of dumbness doesn't even deserve a rebuttal.

zippo said...

Go ahead - let the NAR spend all their money. They'll convince a few drones* to their cause, but the real-whores need to face facts: the damage caused by rampant speculation and hype since 2002 will take years to heal.

Talk about a "band-aid fix".

*DRONE - (from Wikipedia) An unhappy citizen in the computer game Alpha Centauri.

Quentin said...

So, with housing prices crashing in Florida, does that mean if I buy a home which appraised at $500,00 and taxed accordingly last year, that if I buy that home this year for $300,00, although my first year taxes would be on a $500,000 home the subsequent year's assessment would be adjusted and I would pay taxes on a $300,000 home? When prices are going down, that "Save our homes" law would now seem to be working for new buyers, correct?

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