Monday, January 15, 2007

The Exodus Started in 2006

From the Sun-Sentinel, new evidence that out-of-staters are getting the message about the high cost of living down here.

'For the first time in 30 years, United Van Lines Inc. says it moved more people out of Florida than in, and analysts see that as a sign that consumers are looking elsewhere for a cheaper slice of life.

The nation's largest moving company reported 16,212 inbound shipments to Florida last year and 17,019 outbound shipments. United moved more people to Florida in each year from 1999 to 2004, but the number of inbound moves fell in 2005, spokeswoman Jennifer Bonham said.

The study isn't scientific, but it does underscore a recent trend in which fed-up Floridians are moving to other parts of the country, in part to escape rising property taxes and insurance rates.'


To quote Mr. Spock, "Simply fascinating." So, if Florida is no longer the #1 moving destination east of the Mississippi, where ARE people moving to?

'United's report shows that North Carolina, Oregon and South Carolina were the top destination states in 2006. Michigan, hit hard by automobile industry layoffs, North Dakota and New Jersey were the states that saw the most people leave.'

Again, fascinating. So the anecdotal stories of "half-backs" and "J-turns" to the Carolinas are true. It looks like the free income tax system in Florida has lost it's luster. I still wonder how many folks who are thinking about moving here realize they'll be asked to subsidize all of the current dwellers (via the regressive "Save Our Homes" tax) when they buy or lease their residence in the Sunshine State. I suspect the word has gotten out, but most are still clueless.

'The housing boom brought more people to the Sunshine State at the start of the decade, but the run-up in home values during the past five years sent property-tax rates soaring. Many residents now say they can't afford to move elsewhere in Florida because of the huge hit they'd take on taxes.'

And of course, along with taxes, our good friend The Insurance Crisis has had a major role in convincing people to move out. C'mon folks, admit it. It is VERY expensive to live and work in Florida (extremely rural areas excepted).

'What's more, busy hurricane seasons in 2004 and 2005 led to massive rate hikes from the state's largest home insurance companies.

It all just pushed us past the breaking point," David Levin, a Delray Beach-based housing consultant, said Wednesday. '


Besides having one of the worst income/housing cost ratios in the country, we have another issue that's been like a debilitating disease, slowly destroying the place. It's called the "build it first, take care of growth problems later" cancer, a product of an unholy union: the scorched earth developers and the elected officials whose campaigns they fund. This has led to bad street design, horrible congestion, overcrowded schools, leveled forests, ugly condo-towered beaches, and the steady, continued degradation of the Florida lifestyle.

'Recent U.S. census figures show that Florida gains 1,000 people a day while losing 400, said Grant Thrall, a professor of business geography at the University of Florida. But some residents clearly are reconsidering because of the cost of living and other factors, Thrall said.

"People move to where their well-being is going to be the greatest," he said. "Many people find the urban-built environment of Florida totally disgusting."'


Thanks to Ben at the Housing Bubble Blog for the story.

72 comments:

CRAZY G said...

Crazy would like to point out a little recognized fact, that hasn't showed up on the radar yet!!!

Right here in our development, are rows of 'partially completed' houses....shells standing, with no-one insight....no one working on them....
All the industrious Mexican workers are gone.....
I asked a worker finishing a project ...What happened to them all???

He told me, that they are all probably gone to the pan-handle, or to Mobile, or Louisiana.....To work in projects over there!!!
Where there used to be maybe 75 vehicles with 100 or more workers in here on any given day....

Now there are nearly none!!!!

The oddest thing about it though, is that unemployment here in Volusia County actually dropped 2/10 of a point...even whilst the workers are not working???

NONE OF THIS MAKES ANY SENSE RIGHT NOW, AND WE'LL JUST HAVE TO SORT IT OUT IN TIME!!!!

Wayne said...

Ouch! Population growth is to Florida what auto manufacturing is to Michigan. Not sure this United Vans survey signifies the nail in the coffin, but consider this piece of anecdotal evidence from an AP story in early December:
---------------------
Florida school enrollment far below projection

BY BILL KACZOR

ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. -- School districts will lose $203 million in state assistance because statewide enrollment increased by fewer than 500 students this year, far below the projected growth rate, Florida education officials said Thursday.

The 0.02 percent increase is the lowest since the 1981-82 school year, when statewide enrollment declined by less than a percentage point.
--------------------------

Some may remember that the fall of 1981 marked the beginning of the second worst recession since World War II.

SKB said...

"All the industrious Mexican workers are gone....."

"The oddest thing about it though, is that unemployment here in Volusia County actually dropped 2/10 of a point...even whilst the workers are not working???"

Crazy, they were all illegal aliens working for next to nothing dollars an hour under the table.

Wait until all of the crap they built starts to fall down with the first big wind.

SKB

gordo nyc said...

I for one am more than just a statistic in this issue.

Originally, I had planned on retiring from NYC to NE FL. When houses were cheap, there was no question that I would buy... probably before I even moved down.

After carefully weighing the property tax and insurance issues, I have since decided to rent.

Furthermore, I am not confident the FL lifestyle I expected will be what I get. Couple that with fears of global warming effects occuring at an ever increasing pace and I am no longer comitted to my original plans.

We'll give it a good look-see; but I am now considering living half the time in Boulder CO.

Love the blog. gordo

CRAZY G said...

SKB reply:

Would you work your @ss off for $8-10/hr.....in 90+ degree heat...
Comeon!!! Give them credit for doing what they're here for!!!

YOU WOULDN'T DO IT!!!!

It's serville labor to be sure!!!
But!!! The new Congress is going to be giving them a raise to $7.25/hr.....

Bad mouth them as much as you want, but there are "thousands of Americans' who wouldn't do their job, for the wages paid/offered....
They would just as well sit home on WELFARE, rather than work!!!!

THEN YOU WONDER WHY TAXES ARE SO HIGH......>>>>IT'S THE WELFARE STATE!!!<<<<

Just like Dear Arnold, in California....You have a "right" to health insurance.....

YYAHH!!!! RIGHT!!!! WHO PAYS!!!!

Anybody that has an employee!!! [of 10?]....
Try $3000 to $6000 per employee, for starters......divide by 2000/hrs, and you got $3.00/hr for health, on top of $7.25/hr min + Soc sec, Medicare, and misc sundry charges and pretty soon you got 100% overhead on a min wage employee!!!

"IF" you want to see employees disappear.....pass more legislation!!!!

CRAZY G said...

gordo nyc; reply:

Trust me gordo...Florida doesn't need you......
It's got enough problems with the population it already has.....

FLORIDA HAS AN INSURANCE CRISES IN EVERY FORM....TO BE SURE...YOU NAME THE COVERAGE, IT'S A CRISES!!!.....

Stay where you're at, with familiar surroundings, and don't trust the shysters in Florida!!!!

gordo nyc said...

Thanks for the warning Crazy. But I already know my way around town.

Actually I was planning on coming down to Flagler Beach to build some more strip malls. There's a few places along Moody near the Intercoastal that look kind of bare with all that empty land and all.

Don't worry, I won't stay. I'll sell out to some NJ slumlords and head out to Boulder when my mission is accomplished. Gordo
PS If you see any of those day laborers, tell em to stick around a little bit longer.

Anonymous said...

Reply to Crazy who said,

"Bad mouth them as much as you want, but there are "thousands of Americans' who wouldn't do their job, for the wages paid/offered....
They would just as well sit home on WELFARE, rather than work!!!!"

This is exactly right, and why should they work for slave wages, which were lowered by the presence of illegal alien labor in the first place. I suppose you would enjoy seeing all American citizens working for slave wages in the Florida summer heat.

I encourage all citizens not making a living wage to get on the public dole, section 8, free health care etc. After all, why should only illegals get all the freebies. I myself from time to time refuse to work for a substandard wage after layoffs, and live off my savings and 401k for long periods of time. I have not needed to dip into the public dole yet, but would consider it.

Millions of Americans do the same thing I do in-between jobs, and are not counted as unemployed, because they are not applying for dead end jobs offering slave wages. They fly under the unemployment radar and would add 4% to the unemployment rate if counted.

I thank God for this housing bubble bust everyday. This is the only way to drive out the illegal alien labor. Let the whole system go bust, then enforce the current immigration laws, and let American citizens compete fairly for work, without wage lowering illegals.

CRAZY G said...

anonymous reply:

|||"" let American citizens compete fairly for work"""|||

There is "ABSOLUTELY" no way they can!!!
Between the social costs of doing business, & legal expenses of various forms of insurance you need, and regulations of federal & state agencies, is enough....
"THEN""...you add in floating currencies of the U.S. Dollar, and
the American worker is cooked....
The American worker is not competing with the guy down the street....He's competing with the guy across the ocean, who just 'under-cut' their currency, and put you out of business....
ALL the jobs have gone to the Asiatics who don't get 'fringe' benefits, etc...
One of Crazy's sayings from many years ago, was...""EVERYTHING REACHES A LEAST COMMON DENOMINATOR""
SSSSOOOO!!! "IF" the guy over there is working for $1.00/day...
GUESS WHAT!!! You will also...

25 years ago, Bruce Springsteen sang the song about Allenton Pa.; one of the verses said;.....'the jobs are going and they ain't coming back'....

||||IT'S ALL BECAUSE THE U.S. WENT OFF THE GOLD STANDARD IN 1971, AND ADOPTED THE FLOATING CURRENCY REGIME|||

|||NOT ONE PERSON IN 10,000 UNDERSTANDS THAT||||

CRAZY G said...

Anonymous reply cont'd....

|||""and why should they work for slave wages, ""||

Nobody 'forced' you to take a job..."BUT", "IF", you want to compete, like you say????
You're competing with somebody willing to work for less....
As Alexander Toynebee once said:
"There is nothing wrong with un-employment 'if' you can afford it"

"IF", you don't have to work for slave wages...""DON'T"""
"IF"" you do have to....SHUT YOUR DAM MOUTH AND DO IT

saturn beach said...

This is a great story - within a year, you are going to see front-page articles across the state. All will be dealing with the state's financial crisis.

With all of these folks moving out, the money train is out of diesel fuel.

Growth at any cost has now become too expensive.

- Saturn (the 6th planet)

CRAZY G said...

""EXODUS?????"".....

>>>>>>""NO WAY""<<<<<<<<<<

You're screwed and you're trapped!!!!

Real Estate is considered an 'asset'....much like a stock or a bond....
Once created/built......

somebody will always own it....
the only difference is "at what price"....

On margin, there in fact maybe a exodus, as renters, or foreclosed houses recycle.....but this will be of a short duration.....

Exactly how it will all playout....Crazy can't imagine, yet...

""BUT...OVER A TIME PERIOD...PRICES ARE GOING DOWN ...\\\\ BIG TIME ////"""

Sure!! Somebody, somewhere may want out, by selling....."BUT"" somebody else is now moving in....
neutral/standoff????

In an absolute worst case situation, you could have prices drop to the point where the owner is underwater, and just throws in the keys, and walks away.....it's true...
"IF", it gets that bad with enough of them, Florida is headed for a major, major crises....

SKB said...

"Would you work your @ss off for $8-10/hr.....in 90+ degree heat...
Comeon!!! Give them credit for doing what they're here for!!!"


I would not give any illegal worker credit for anything. The ones that have been employing them should be jailed.

SKB said...

"Trust me gordo...Florida doesn't need you......"

Florida WILL need you Gordo and lot's more like you. People that have money and can keep the economy going and buy up and live in all of the empty houses and condos.

SKB

jayz said...

I'm with you SKB - jail the employers, and the demand dries up.

Problem solved.

(too bad our woose-a$$ politicians don't have the cojones to pass laws that go after these law-breakers - just not as politically correct as going after the Mexicans)

Anonymous said...

What about all the poor McMansion owners who need cheep illegal housekeepers, nannies, gardeners, landscapers, maintenance workers, etc. Things overgrow and fall apart very quickly down here, because of the weather. When the higher paid illegal construction workers leave the state due to less construction work, they take their housekeeper wives, and their extended family members doing this kind of cheaper work, with them.

What are all the McMansion owners to do? Take a look at Google Earth, and see for yourself, the enormous amount prime real estate there is in this state, that needs to be serviced by cheep illegals. Perhaps this is why the wealthy people lobby so hard to keep illegals flowing in this country. I feel sorry for them. NOT!

jayz said...

'Zactly. If the McMansionites can't afford anyone but illegals to do their house/yard work, then they should move out.

Or go to jail - their choice.

CRAZY G said...

jayz & skb reply;

GROW UP...WILL YOU!!!!

Who is going to work the truck farms, picking tomatoes, oranges, grapes, etc....

150 years ago, they had 'free' labor to do those jobs, and now they have to pay them, according to their talents.....
It's a minimum wage job, that most people don't want to do......So they green card them in, to do that work....and the workers are happy to do it, and so are the employers [glad] to get somebody to bring the product to market....

You were either born yesterday, and don't know what you're talking about, or your prejudices have clouded you mind....

MEXICAN'S ARE JUST PEOPLE LIKE YOU AND I TRYING TO MAKE THE BEST OF THEIR SITUATION!!!! [which is not good]

Believe me when I tell you, that in 20 years the Mexican Peso, will be on a par with the """AMERICAN PESO DOLLAR""" And you may be glad to have a mexican as your boss!!!!

Anonymous said...

Response to Crazy G;

You lose in this debate. The market is solving this problem for us. No one cares about your emotional arguments. If growers can't pay higher rates to attract the workers they need to pick their crops then, too bad. the crops don't get picked. Tuff! If prices for goods and services go up, Tuff. If McMansion owners have to pay more for their legal servants then, too bad.

SKB said...

"GROW UP...WILL YOU!!!!"
"You were either born yesterday, and don't know what you're talking about, or your prejudices have clouded you mind...."

Hey, I am talking about ILLEGAL WORKERS not green carded workers.
If they want to work for minimum wage picking produce that is their business and I have no problem with that or any other LEGALLY ENTITLED WORKER. I am talking about the illegal workers sneaking over the fence and undercutting jobs, salaries and trying to steal from the system.

I have no problem with a Mexican being my boss or any one else for that matter as long as they are a fair decent human being.

You are the one spouting prejudices. "Florida doesn't need you......"



Crazy I find your wisdom in some areas spot on, yet I find you so condescending, petty, and cruel to others. It really turns me off this board. I have yet to see you support anyone else's ideas on this blog. In fact, it seems to me that you are mostly the only poster on this board anymore. I wonder if your attitudes have chased most off this board. Stop being so grouchy and try to see others in a more positive way.

SKB

SKB said...

"You lose in this debate. The market is solving this problem for us. No one cares about your emotional arguments. If growers can't pay higher rates to attract the workers they need to pick their crops then, too bad. the crops don't get picked. Tuff! If prices for goods and services go up, Tuff. If McMansion owners have to pay more for their legal servants then, too bad."

Perfectly said Thank you.

SKB

lizziebeth said...

SKB,

Amen! I usually skim over what crazy says. I would say more often than not, he's right on the money. However, it's the ranting and negative tone that turn me off! I have to say I've been staying away.

Glad to see all the posts from non-crazies!

Hey Crazy, worked in Ruskin for several years teaching. The migrants were here legally, they picked the strawberries, oranges.... and when the season was up, migrated to Texas or another area to pick, then went back to Mexico. As I recall they were the most amazing, hard working folks I've ever known!

Illegals on the other hand have taken jobs away from Americans. Enough is enough. They are stealing from the government, many not paying taxes. Yes, no doubt they work hard! Given a fair wage, there are many Americans that would work just as hard!

Working with Christmas charities this past Christmas made me quite cynical! I couldn't help but notice that 75% of the people coming to get free gifts didn't speak english. How many were illegals? How many made $3,000k+ a month under the table.

Think about it. A cleaning lady knocks out three mcmansions a day at $100 bucks a pop, pays her helper a measly $100, she's making $1,000 a week free and clear! They live in crap boxes with other families because they are probably palaces compared to Mexico. Therefore, sharing the measeley rent. Cleaning lady's husband paints houses for cash. I know I've paid painters over $1000 for a few days work. So let's say painter husband makes $1,000 a week also. Between the two of them thats almost $90k a year. I can't help but wonder, how many of them were in line for free toys. According to the IRS, they are poor. They don't make any money. Time to go home or at least learn to speak english!!!!

lizziebeth said...

Oops, I meant to say almost $100k.

SKB said...

Hiya Lizziebeth, nice to see you back on here.
I am glad to see you can understand and relate the point of my post.

I can not understand why Crazy finds things so difficult and seems to always go off the deep end of the pool.

I have been spending more time reading from the Housing Bubble Blog myself as of late.
Everyone participates and there is a good feeling on that site.
I really like this blog but crazy has really turned me off this site. Pretty soon it will only be crazy posting.

SKB

Anonymous said...

LIzzie

I agree. Too much Crazy will drive you away - too much ranting and raving.

Anyway, there will always be minimum wage workers whether legal or not. Nothing wrong w/ working for $8-10 bucks an hour out in the hot sun. My dad sent me to work in the groves when I was fourteen and it didnt't kill me. No big deal. Some people learn to move ahead b/c of it and some don't. But its not an excuse to hire illegals.

By the way, do you know what happens to illegals when they get hurt on the job in Florida? The work comp carrier can deny them benefits if the worker has used illegal documents to get the job. i.e. a fake ss number - which about 98% of them do.

So please lets not act like the illegals are doing us a big favor; in many cases they are getting the raw end of the carrot.

CRAZY G said...

"YOU"" say we don't need them stinkin wet backs.....right!!!!

Read this guys problems!!!!

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070117/farm_scene.html?.v=2

His problems could be your problems.....

HELP!!!! whoops He means ""NO"" help

CRAZY G said...

SKB reply:


|||||"""You are the one spouting prejudices. "Florida doesn't need you......""""|||||

Crazy thinks your statement is a .... "Myoptic" view to say the least!!!!
Florida doesn't need 'Gordo', we have ENOUGH people down here with enough problems, as it stands....

My proposal to the legislature was/is to 'charge an entrance fee' to Florida....
NOBODY said back then, that it was prejudiced.....why NOW....

Florida has a lot of problems, the U.S. & has a lot more of bigger problems...

And we don't need your stinkin view of prejudice....as expressed on the day after MARTIN LUTHER KING day!!!!

CRAZY G said...

Crazy is going to go off the deep end here, and get a little personal....to say the least....

Reply to SKB:

SKB, doesn't stand for SUN KISSED BEACHES as you claim!!!

>>>IT STANDS FOR ""SUN KISSED BRAIN""<<<

Crazy thinks you have been out in the sun to long, and your brain has shriviled up, like a prune, [you know]....

Throw 'everybody' in jail...."right'....we currently have the largest jailed population in the world...with over 2 million...and your proposal, is for more laws, MORE JAILS!!!

""IF YOUR BRAIN HAS DRYED UP LIKE A PRUNE, CRAZY WONDERS WHAT YOUR FACE LOOKS LIKE???"""

CRAZY G said...

Talk about clouded vision:
=================================
||||Anonymous said...
Response to Crazy G;

You lose in this debate. The market is solving this problem for us. No one cares about your emotional arguments. If growers can't pay higher rates to attract the workers they need to pick their crops then, too bad. the crops don't get picked. Tuff! If prices for goods and services go up, Tuff. If McMansion owners have to pay more for their legal servants then, too bad.|||||
==================================
READ THE ARTICLE CRAZY POSTED IN ABOVE BLOG ABOUT LIFE IN THE REAL WORLD WITH FARMERS .....IN CONTRAST TO PEOPLE OF LIMITED INTELLECTUAL ABLITITES

lizziebeth said...

Did anyone read the previous 4 posts? Nope, me neither! Cheers!

Anonymous said...

Lizzie

Unfortunately he has ruined this blog. Every time I pull it up he has 8 or 10 postings - and as you said before - I just quit coming back.

CRAZY G said...

Then you're going miss Crazy's answer to the immigration problem....

>>>>WE SHOULD HAVE CHEAP IMMIGRATION LABOR BUILD ALL THE JAILS TO HOUSE ALL THE PEOPLE WHO HIRE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS...<<<<

Once we had all violators locked up [tight and smug], we could send all immigrants home with all the money ours they made building prisons!!!!

lizziebeth said...

Anonymous,

We can't let him ruin this blog. Everyone should just skip over what he writes. It's sad as some of what he says can be funny and/or informative. he is obnoxious!

Us Florida Bubble haters need this blog. The housing bubble blog is too big! They must have scared him away at that blog site. I haven't noticed any of his rants over there!

Let's not let one idiot ruin this blog!

lizziebeth said...

Here's a good one. builders report more losses. For a chuckle, Lennar was reported to say "uncertain market conditions make forecasts difficult". It was also reported that they said if the jobs market stays strong, interest rates remain low, a healthy economy continues, and the new home market demonstrates traditional, seasonal improvement it will meet or exceed it's 2006 earnings of 3,69 a share.

Fat chance!

lizziebeth said...

Check out the article in sun sentinel. The headline is "Housing Slump will help spur retail slowdown in S. Florida, Economist says".

Can anyone remind me how to post links?

Also, the Sarasota Herald reports that a longtime furniture manufacturer in SW florida is closing shop. Among the many reasons, the slowdown in housing.

CRAZY G said...

Lizzie Breath Reply about linkage:

Take your curser, upto 'address'...left click it....
it'll then turn gray....move your curser upto edit....click it, and 'copy' will show up...click 'copy'....bring up blog website again....
mark blog page with left click, where you want 'paste' to go, then right click, 'ON BLOG PAGE', and and 'paste' to where you want it...

lizziebeth said...

Here's another good one. Looking at rentals in lakewood ranch. One realtor Kathy Liga has several listings. Decided to do a property search on Kathy. She owns three flips. One seems rather fishy.

Michael Donovan purchased the home from Kimball homes for $174900 in September of '05. Lillian Fitzgerald purchased the home from donovan in October(less than 3 weeks) for $250k. Nice profit for 3 weeks. Realtor Kathy Liga turns around and buys it from Fitzgerald in June of '06 for undisclosed amount. It was a Quit claim deed.

What is a quick claim deed?

These realtors and folks really thought this bubble was going to last forever???? The only idiot I know that would purchase a house three weeks later for $75k more is either a crook or stupid!!!! Nope, don't feel sorry for these idiots! I do feel sorry for the innocent people who are hurt by this mess!

CRAZY G said...

Article in Palm Beach Post about insurance debate in Florida;

BOTTOM LINE IS YOUR GOING TO PAY!!!! One way or another.....
Maybe even a 1% increase in sales tax to pay for insurance????

Read the article yourself;
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/content/state/epaper/2007/01/17/s1a_insure_0117.html

CRAZY G said...

Lizzie Breath reply:

It's NOT 'quick claim' deed.....

It's "quit claim" deed....

In deference to a "warranty deed"

In essence [not being a lawyer of course], you sign over any claim to any rights you may have had to the property, without warranting that you have/had those rights to begin with....

lizziebeth said...

I'm on a roll here. Realtor Leigh Ann Grooms and husband Christopher own 5 homes in Bradenton. They purchased two at the same time from Morrison homes and Kimball homes. Are we supposed to feel sorry for the builders? They screwed their real customers for the almighty dollar. They knew why these folks were buying and didn't care. Ha! they deserve what they get!!!

CRAZY G said...

Visualize this.....

Buyers on one side "NOT" buying...

Sellers on the other side "NOT" selling....

There is a "COOL HAND LUKE" quote: "What we have here is a failure to communicate".....

Between them is a chasm of "PRICE"...

More Importantly, the $$$MONEY$$ is ""NOT"" flowing....In other words; It may cause the economy to slow down....
A quick look down the street here in our development, confirms that house building has come to a nearly complete standstill....houses remain in partially completed form, without any workers in sight....
Either,1]. buyers have to ante up with money that they don't have and can't afford....2]. Sellers have to drop their prices so buyers can participate and take the necessary mark down to market, with sustainable losses to asset prices, in some cases below their costs....3]. Status quo remains, and economy comes to a near complete grinding halt....
For the moment at least, Crazy thinks that #3 is going to prevail.....
And as Joseph Schumpeter once said:
The ground beneath them, on the precipatice of the chasm, will give away, and they all go down together.....

SKB said...

"My proposal to the legislature was/is to 'charge an entrance fee' to Florida...."

Better idea, a proposal to legislature for an exit fee and Crazy g can take his 100.00 and leave this blog.

Jerry, why are you letting this crazy person ruin your blog?
You have worked so hard on it. I can not for the life of me understand why you tolerate his behavior when you can see what is happening here.

SKB
SunKissedBeauty

CRAZY G said...

Lizzie Breath reply:

Now that you are on a 'roll'.....educate yourself some more here.....dig deeper.....from the transaction on the tax asessors page...get the book and page of the transaction, then go to the register of deeds and see how much they owe on those properties....and you can even bring up the actual document itself to see if they have a 'ARM'S mortgage....and even the rate of interest they pay!!!!!

>>>"""COOL STUFF""<<<

||||TRUE; IT'S A FORM OF VOYEURISM||||

But that's the only real way you can find out what people are really doing....and not 'B.S.'ing you!!!!

SKB said...

I certainly do not feel sorry for people like Leigh Ann Grooms or any builders. They are going to reap what they have sown.
I have researched out so many greedy flippers myself and all of them are in the same boat. I have one that I have been tracking that owns 7 properties. The combined taxes are 24,264. The flippers are from San Clemente CA.

If any legislation should be passed it should be tight restrictions on investment property buyers.

CRAZY G said...

SUN KISSED BRAIN: REPLY

Your brain has really shrivelled up if you think your proposal makes any cents [sic]????

||||||Better idea, a proposal to legislature for an exit fee and Crazy g can take his 100.00 and leave this blog.||||||

>>>YOU WANT TO CHARGE PEOPLE TO LEAVE THE STATE????<<<<

SKB....I think your totally gone NOW!!!!

CRAZY G said...

More legislation SKB????

Just what we need,,,,,more politicans getting involved, with more laws that don't work....RIGHT???

||||If any legislation should be passed it should be tight restrictions on investment property buyers|||||

From the last 3 statements you have made, anyone could assume your brain is totally shrivelled????

SKB said...

Lizzie,

I just got a phone call from a builder in Florida (turn key homes) he told me that brand new properties are selling in PSL and I must be aware that they only have a limited amount of 50,000 lots left. I must act quickly!!
He said that prices are going to start to go up again when those limited $50,000 lots are gone. He said that they realized that everyone wants to pay no more than $250,000 so they are making that happen now. He said because of the cost of building materials they can not build any homes for cheaper than this.

What am I going to do? boohoo I am screwed.


After filling him in on what this consumer knows about the housing market, "creative financing" that will soon be a bad memory for the banks, flippers gone back to their caves and homes NOT selling I asked him exactly WHO is left to afford buying these homes at $250,000 when the median price is so disconnected with the fundamentals? that is when he hung up on me. ROFLMAO

G, I sounded Crazy.....I was ranting and raving.

SKB said...

">>>YOU WANT TO CHARGE PEOPLE TO LEAVE THE STATE????<<<<"

No, crazy my idea was only meant for you.

Crazy, can you not recognize when someone is mocking you? that what that statement meant.

Did you actually take me seriously? Stop being so literal and chill out already.

CRAZY G said...

SKB reply: ROTFLMOA.....
=================================
SKB said...
">>>YOU WANT TO CHARGE PEOPLE TO LEAVE THE STATE????<<<<"

No, crazy my idea was only meant for you
===================================
SKB....little do you know that;

Abraham Lincoln, introduced legislation to pay slaves to go back to Africa....
Crazy is NOT above reproach....
[WITH MONEY OF COURSE]

FL - Paradise Lost said...

Crazy - please no name calling. We're all mostly in agreement here. I do like your on-the-field reports from the east coast - very insightful.

CRAZY G said...

SKB reply: About PSL;
===================================
he told me that brand new properties are selling in PSL and I must be aware that they only have a limited amount of 50,000 lots left. I must act quickly!!
===================================

Sun Kissed Prune;....
"IF" you have ever been to Port St. Lucie, you'd know that there are 'thousands' of lots left from when General Development layed it out in the 1970's.....
Pretty much like Palm Coast.....
Port St. Lucie "WEST", is a more modern, up-scale development, to be sure.....You'd like it, 'if' you want to spend that kind of money, and have the houses 10-15/ft apart....PSL doesn't have a Mall...
Of course, for shopping you could always go the the Orange Blossom Mall in Fort Pierce....
A wonderfull place for certain kinds of people!!!

CRAZY G said...

Fl Paradise lost reply:

I had "NO" idea I was name calling..
Frankly I thought some of their attitudes were VERY prejudiced, against minority groups....

"IF" calling somebody's brain a 'shrivelled prune' is name calling....

I STAND CORRECTED!!!!

CRAZY G said...

EXODUS..."NO""...BUT ""NO"" EGRESS
==================================
Snowbirds are not returning to Florida as they used to," Pizam said. "We're not getting as many repeat visitors. Other destinations are competing with us as well. Also, remember that snowbirds have a lot of expenses, with insurance and medical costs, and they have less money for trips. So, rather than cutting out the vacation completely, they're staying for a shorter time."

http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070116/NEWS/701160359/1004/RSS&source=RSS
=================================
CRAZY SAYS THEY AIN'T LEAVING YET, BUT THEY AIN'T STAYING EITHER!!!

gordo nyc said...

Sellers keep trying to psych the market, but Buyers are not falling for the hype.

Buyers know there will be a break in the wall. We all believe that a foreclosure, a desparate seller, or an othewise motivated seller will come down on their pricing. It is happening right now.

Almost everyone who had to buy... has already bought. Those of us left are waiting for the bottom. If that means renting, hey so much the better. I would rather forego a modest mortage interest tax deduction and not pay inflated insurance costs, overvalued property taxes; and speculator driven artificially high prices.

Buyers set the market. The longer we can wait; the more we can save.

Gordo

PS Let's drop this Crazy G. Thing OK?

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